Captain Emil Dobrovolschi and international trainer Octavian Pantis share lessons from their new book Dark Cockpit with our host Evan Hackel

We are excited to share excerpts from a recent conversation between our host Evan Hackel and two remarkable men – airline Captain Emil Dobrovolschi and international trainer Octavian Pantis, authors of the new book Dark Cockpit:  How to Communicate, Lead, and Be In Control at All Times Like an Airline Captain (Ignite Press, May 6, 2021).

The motivation behind Dark Cockpit was to revolutionize training by tapping into the treasure of knowledge that has been developed for aviation training, and to explain how it can be applied to leadership, crisis management, and other critical tasks. The authors, Emil and Octavian, have done a remarkable job of taking their knowledge about pilot training and translating it into advice all of us can use – even those of us who will never pilot a plane.

There is nothing theoretical or “soft” about their advice, because the training pilots receive can make the difference between life and death. And these two men, who both hail from Romania, are the “real deal” in providing that training. Captain Emil Dobrovolschi is a pilot with Torom, the national airline of Romania. He has been flying for Torom for 29 years, has been a flight instructor for 20 years, and has been an examiner for the last 18 years. That means that he is part of a team that examines every pilot who takes charge of a plane in Romania, and issues pilot’s licenses.

“It is a great responsibility, Emil told Evan. “At the end of the day if you do not trust a pilot to fly your family . . . my job is to judge how they perform and if they do not perform well, we will not pass them.”

Octavian Pantis, who wrote Dark Cockpit with Captain Emil, brings a similarly high level of experience to his work as an international master trainer. Also headquartered in Bucharest, Octavian manages an international training company that focuses on leadership, training, productivity and international culture.

Let’s hear what Evan, Emil and Octavian talked about in this important podcast.

Evan Sets the Context for Why Training Is Critical

Evan observed, “Pilot training can be the difference between life and death. Many companies don’t see training that way. They don’t see it as a life or death activity for their companies, but it truly is. So your insights are critically important for our viewers to hear.”

Octavian Lays Out an Approach for Training that Can’t Be Allowed to Fail

Octavian, as we noted above, is a professional trainer who specializes in training that focuses on leadership,  productivity and culture.

He explained his belief to Evan and Emil that in order for training to be ultra-effective, it should conform to these three keys:

• First, everyone must train. “Everyone in an organization should attend the training,” Octavian said. “It is not just for newcomers.”
• Second, it’s ongoing. “It’s regular, not only for when you have the budget or when you have the time or a subject to teach or when the manager says it’s time to do it,” he explained.
• Third, it’s not limited in scope. “Training should be on a wide range of topics,” he said. “It’s not only on what’s new.”

Furthermore, expectations should be high for training. Octavian explained, “In air travel, training is not just about getting from Point A to Point B safely, but also comfortably, if possible. To achieve that, many things have to be in place. Without higher expectations, training would not work.”

Why Communication Is a Critically Important Training Topic in Aviation and in Your Organization Too

“Everybody knows that communication is important,” Emil told Evan and Octavian. “And in aviation, communication is critical for avoiding and dealing with mishaps. In aviation, history is written in blood!

“So for us, communication and training are vital. The way we communicate, the way we pass the message unequivocally, without access to body language, the way we manage to understand each other in a dark environment, is critical . . . for us, it’s a skill we develop over the years, but also something we learn in training. So every pilot, every year, goes twice to the simulator for eight hours.

“One session is for training in a simulator. The next session is a check, where the pilot goes if he passes that simulator training session. If the pilot doesn’t pass the simulator training session, he will not go to the second session, the check. And if a pilot doesn’t pass the check, he will be grounded until the next exam.

“Most of the people who fail this process are beginners. But there is no tolerance for mistakes, no tolerance for indiscipline. . . some pilots after maybe five or 10 years, become complacent. They know the aircraft. They may know how to make decisions, but they become complacent, and they don’t learn any more. And they are just, as I say, just floating.

“But that is not possible in our training, because the minimum mark to pass an exam is 7.5 or 8. For my company, it means achieving 8 out of 10. So if you’re not above that standard, you’re not flying the aircraft, you’re not in the cockpit any more.

“That puts pressure on the instructors first. You need to standardize the training for trainers and examiners, so they reach a good standard . . .  It’s not a punishment, but it’s a pressure on the trainers and then on the professional pilots too.”

Imparting a Sense that Training is Critically Important

In every year they fly, pilots can become a little more complacent and comfortable. And training has to fight that and help assure that pilots remain aware of the dangers they are dealing with.

“Everybody gets a little bit more comfortable,” Emil told Evan and Octavian. “But as a professional pilot, you cannot do that. Not for a minute! If I’m drinking a coffee in my cockpit at 12,000 meters, 39,000 feet, I will maybe feel a little comfortable. I can have a chat with my colleague, but my eyes are always on the instruments. I’m in a nice, comfortable environment. It’s warm or cold the way I want. But outside the window, just two feet away from my shoulder, its minus 70 degrees and the aircraft flies at 450 miles per hour! So at any moment something wrong can happen if you are not prepared for the worst every time.

“Pick every incident or accident in the history of aviation, and I will show you how there was a lack of training in that company or a lack of training of those pilots, in the way they got the license, in the way they trained.

“And if you want to maintain a high level of training, a high level of proficiency in your pilots, you have to train them not just  the technical skills, but you have to train the non-technical skills, their attitude, and the way they communicate, things like that.”

Octavian on How to Keep Trainees Coming Back and Staying Committed to Training

“One key is to keep training regular,” Octavian told Evan and Emil. “For instance, in aviation, even the best pilots in the world know that they’re scheduled for training in September and then in April.

“Yet in many companies where training doesn’t happen for a while, people are apt to think, `What’s wrong? What do you have against me? Did I do something wrong that you sent me to training?’

“But if it’s regular, then it’s like brushing teeth, it’s like having the annual or biannual performance evaluations, then yeah, when is when is the next one, the next one in September? So it’s not like, why do I have to go? You have to go because you have to, because it’s a natural part of what you do.”

A Special Offer

Captain Emil and master trainer Octavian invite all members of the Training Unleashed family to download a free chapter of their new book DarkCockpitBook.com. This book is more than interesting or useful – it is thrilling. You won’t want to pass up this chance to learn how to apply its lessons to creating training that simply cannot be allowed to fail.

Be sure to watch this critically important podcast now, [INSERT LINK] It is an experience that will transform your training and your success!

About Our Guests

Captain Emil Dobrovolschi is a pilot with Torom, the national airline of Romania. He has been flying for Torom for 29 years, has been a flight instructor for 20 years and has been an examiner for the last 18 years. That means that he is part of the team that examines every pilot who takes charge of a plane in Romania, and issues pilot’s licenses.

Octavian Pantis, who wrote Dark Cockpit with Captain Emil, brings a similarly high level of experience to his work as an international master trainer. Also headquartered in Bucharest, he manages an international training company that focuses on leadership, training, productivity and international culture.

Over the years, many successful people have been talking about the benefits of “failing forward.” In fact, “failing forward” has become a standard business term. It means that people and the organizations they serve can only succeed by making a series of mistakes, and then learning from each of them.

This concept only makes sense. But then someone like Erin Diehl comes along and elevates the whole idea of failing forward to an entirely new level. She us founder of ImproveIt!, a company that conducts workshops that help people and organizations “get comfortable with the uncomfortable.” In a recent Training Unleashed Podcast with host Evan Hackel, the dynamic Erin discussed the profound life lessons she learned about failure by performing improv.

That’s right . . . improv! Be sure to watch this life-transforming podcast. 

Here are some excerpts of the conversation between Evan and Erin.

Evan: I see you are sitting in front of a sign that says “Fail Yeah!” Can you tell me about that?

Erin: “Fail Yeah” is the name of a podcast that I host. The words “Fail Yeah” are based in the improvisational comedy world.

There is a rule in improv comedy. There are no mistakes, only gifts! So anything that happens on stage is not a mistake. It becomes a part of the scene. And that is such a metaphor for life, the things that happen to us, the failures that we have along the way, whether they happen in entrepreneurship, in corporate America, in our parenting and day-to-day lives.

Failures are actually supposed to be a part of our scene of life. You have to fail in order to improve . . . if you’re not failing, you’re not trying. And if you’re not trying, you’re not improving.

Evan: I have a saying for myself which is. “I hope my biggest failure is yet to come, because if it’s not, it means I’ve given up trying.”

Erin: That’s it! I love it! I love it!

Evan: I truly believe it. And you know, as training professionals, I think a lot of what we do is cutting edge, leading edge. There’s so much happening in the world of training that there are going to be stumbles. And that’s OK, as long as we learn. Someone famous once said, “We learn more from our failures than we learn from our successes.”

Erin: One hundred percent! And I truly believe in getting used to asking yourself the question, `What did I fail at today?’ And making that a normal thing that you say at the dinner table at the end of the day and making it something you journal about at night.

I love the idea of making failure a part of a company culture internally. My company does failure parties every quarter. We actually have one tomorrow. And instead of making a vision board for the quarter, we make a fail board of the quarter past . . . And it’s so refreshing because it allows our team to feel like we can make mistakes and it allows our team to feel human.

As I said to you before we hit record on this podcast, I’m a recovering perfectionist, turned influencer. I need to remind myself that failure is a part of the process. So it’s a big part of our culture. We’re really proud of it and of leaning into it every day.

Evan: It’s interesting that one of the major underlying root problems in business is people covering themselves. They’re not admitting their failures. They’re avoiding that difficult conversation that doesn’t allow the company to really understand what’s going on. Your failure meeting is a cool idea because it allows people the space to be able to admit they did something wrong.

Erin: That’s it! That is it Evan, and I truly believe in exactly what you said . . . Not allowing our full selves to be shown or almost covering ourselves. I have spent my entire career asking people in corporate America to take their masks off, which was hilarious because in year 2020 we were like, put your healthy mask on, be safe.

But what I feel really happened as a result of the pandemic was even though we were asked to protect ourselves in public, we actually started to see each other as humans because we were peering into each other’s homes and seeing families and pets and the day-to-day and that, I think, really strengthened the bond of a lot of teams and a lot of organizations. And it was a very eye-opening year, which we failed through miserably.

Back to the theme of failure, it felt like we were failing left and right. But we can take a step back and see some of the good that came from it. It’s so interesting to observe and to witness and to transform with, to be honest, so very cool.

Evan: I know you guys use a lot of improv in your work with companies. And maybe you could share why, because I think that’s a good thing to understand.

Erin: This is not an ad, this is an ask for everyone in America. Take an improv class, please! I’ll tell you why it’s such a beautiful, beautiful art form to teach.

Improv is the truest, most natural form of play. I call myself a professional pretender. I have a two-year-old son. He improvises all day long! We are all improvising all day long. But when we hear the word “improv,” it sometimes stifles our creativity and makes us think, oh my gosh, I have to think quickly on the spot. But when we can allow ourselves to truly play and to truly experience training at its finest in soft skill development, which is what we train on, we allow barriers to come down so that the masks that we’re talking about fall. And once that happens, that’s when we’re truly learning because we’re not judging ourselves. We’re not judging others in that moment. We’re in play!

So when we allow those barriers to fall, true learning occurs. That’s when we become our best selves and we grow both personally and professionally. It’s a magical teaching tool.

There’s much more to learn! Listen now. 

A Special Free Offer

Erin invites members of the Training Unleashed family to take the Daily Five Challenge, a life-changing exercise offered by her company ImproveIt! CLICK HERE to enroll at no cost . . . and start transforming your life now.

About Our Guest

Erin Diehl is a graduate of Clemson University and former experiential marketing and recruiting professional as well as a veteran improviser from the top improvisational training programs in Chicago, including The Second City, i.O. Theater and The Annoyance Theatre. Erin conducts workshops across the country leveraging improvisational techniques to improve employees’ skills in corporate settings.

Her work with clients such as United Airlines, PepsiCo, Groupon, Deloitte, Motorola, Lowe’s, Accenture, Walgreens, and The Obama Foundation earned her the 2014 Chicago RedEye Big Idea Award and has nominated her for the 2015-2019 Chicago Innovations Award. Erin was a speaker for Disrupt HR Chicago, hosted the 2016 RedEye Big Idea Awards and has been a speaker for HRMAC Chicago, SHRM Chicago, Disrupt HR, the Business Marketing Association, and Emerging Leaders of the Chicagoland Chamber of Commerce. She is also a proud member of The Chicago Innovation Awards Women’s Cohort and graduate of the Goldman Sachs 10,000 Small Business Program. 

Among her many accolades, Erin is most proud of successfully coercing over 12,000 professionals to chicken dance.

In a recent Training Unleashed podcast, Evan Hackel interviewed Tom Schwab, podcasting guru and Founder/CEO of Interview Valet, the category king of Podcast Interview Marketing.

If you are eager to promote and market your company or yourself using podcasts – which Tom believes is one of the most effective ways possible – you will want to spend a productive half hour watching this episode and playing close heed to what Tom has to tell you.

Here is a summary of the great advice that Tom delivered:

What Is the Biggest Impediment to Promotion and Getting the Word Out about You and Your Company?

“Our view at Interview Valet is that obscurity is your biggest problem, right now! There are thousands, millions of people you could help. There’s only one problem. They don’t know you exist!

“They’d gladly hire you if they just knew your story. And so that’s what we focus on, getting those stories out. There are millions of inspiring thought leaders and millions of people they could serve – a lot of nonfiction authors, high-level coaches, consultants, brands, companies that really need to get their message out there by appearing on podcasts.

“Early on, we had a client that said, `I love working with you because you let me be the guest and you take care of all the rest.”

What Is your Most Compelling Content?

“Your clients are your best copywriters,” Tom told Evan. “And really, that became our tagline. So we’ve got a team of 27. They all don’t work in Kalamazoo, Michigan, with me. We’ve got people in Europe, Canada, the United States and even Mexico as we launch interview Valet Espanol. And so we’re collaborating with clients to figure out what they are, who they want to talk to, what they want them to do, finding those right podcasts for them, and making sure they’re confident and prepared for every interview they go into. So they show up 10 or 15 minutes before the interview to be prepped and then go on for a great discussion.

“Our clients want the maximum return on investment of their time and their money, and that’s why they work with Interview Valet.”

Tom’s Most Powerful Tip

Evan, as he does at the end of every Training Unleashed podcast, asked Tom to give listeners his most powerful success tip.

“My tip is that you are one conversation away . . . “ Tom told Evan.

He then went on to explain, “I believe that all great things start with conversations. There are a lot of different technologies that we can use to have them. But my questions to you are, what conversation do you need to have? And how can you have that conversation to scale, and how can you have it with the right people?

“For me . . . I’ve written a lot of blogs in my life and every one felt like a homework assignment to me. But it’s easier for me to talk. So I’ll have that conversation like this one, in a podcast. I’ll then repurpose it. I’ll share it with different people.

“So I would just share with that you’re just one conversation away from ______. [Your goal goes into that blank space.] What do you want that conversation to be, and how do you need to have it?”

Tom suggests you have that conversation in a podcast.

A Final Observation from Evan

In this podcast, Evan Hackel observed that he learns better by listening than he does by reading. And he can listen and learn from podcasts even when he is driving – anytime!

An Offer to the Training Unleashed Audience from Tom Schwab

Tom would like to offer a complimentary copy of his book Podcast Guest Profits: How to Grow Your Business with a Targeted Interview Strategy. You are invited to download your complimentary copy today.

About Our Guest

Tom Schwab is Founder/CEO of Interview Valet, the category king of Podcast Interview Marketing. He is one of today’s leading experts on podcasting.

Tom knows how to build an online business. He has done it successfully several times, and now helps others find online success with podcast interview marketing. Tom helps thought leaders (coaches, authors, speakers, consultants, emerging brands) get featured on the leading podcasts their ideal prospects are already listening to. He is also a thought leader on helping companies craft and present podcasts of their own.

Tom is author of books that include Podcast Guest Profits: Grow Your Business with a Targeted Interview Strategy.

Every training designer wants to banish boredom from the courses they create. But boredom can creep in. How and why does that happen? According to top training designer Nancy Giere, it happens when training designers are so concerned with including every idea and concept that they overload their courses. “They put in too much content,” she told Even Hackel in this Training Unleashed Podcast. 

How does that happen, and how can you prevent it from affecting your training? Here are some highlights of what Nancy told Evan in her terrific Training Unleashed Podcast, which you will not want to miss. 

Remember What Slides Are For

 “I think slides with pictures and graphics can be very powerful tools,” Nancy told Evan. “But the purpose of slides is not to help presenters organize their thoughts. They should support the audience, not help the presenter remember what to say next!”

On Different Kinds of Training

“There are different types of training,” Nancy explained. “There’s the `check the box training’ that everybody has to do – things like sexual harassment training, safety compliance training, and other topics that are required. And you can easily lose people in those courses because it’s like everybody has to do them.

“So what I’m finding is people are trying to take some of these topics and lighten them to keep people engaged. There are other types of programs, where you’re trying to improve people’s knowledge and skill level. To keep training interesting there, you have to make it clear how the training is going to affect each trainee’s job.

“It’s a matter of including the `What’s in it for me?’ but you want to add, `And why should I care , , , How is this going to improve my situation , , , Am I going to be able to be more effective in my job?` And more importantly, the most important thing is not what happens in the training, but after the training,

“People think, `I learned this great new stuff, and then when I go back to my desk, is it going to be supported? Or is it flavor of the month?’”

How to Use Stories to Create Powerful Training

“The really important element is what happens at the beginning of training” Nancy explained, “which is have a great hook where people go. A lot of people will start by posing a question of the audience. An even more powerful way is to bring them in with a story that’s relatable, where they think, `Oh, yeah, that’s me. . . you get their attention quickly, because they make a decision early on whether or not they’re going to pay attention.

“So that’s the first part. The next is to have a good structure. Give people a roadmap. Tell them, `This is the journey I’m going to take you on today , , , These are the three key ideas that I have for you.’

“The close is also just as important as the opening. And what’s really important is for the audience to be able to say, `I did this. These were the key skills that I had to embody to be able to do this. And you then get to whatever the improvement is, whatever that key idea is, or the place you want to take people.

“You want them to say, `I did it!. Look at me. And so can you!”

What Makes for a Great Story?

She told Evan that first of all, the stories you use have to be real.

“I know people make up stories,” Nancy said, “And when they do, they come off as made up. I think people can tell the story is real or not, but what are the keys?

“I remember watching someone at a Toastmasters competition. She was the test speaker and she told a story about how she was a scuba diver and something happened where her tanks weren’t completely full of air. And she went under and ran out of air and had to get to the surface. And then when she got to the surface, there was a lot of wave action, and she told the story kind of like I am telling it to you now. And then this happened and this happened  . . .  

“It wasn’t her story! I was evaluating it and I realized her story didn’t move me in any way. There was no drama, there was no emotion, she didn’t take me with her, right? I didn’t feel the panic.

“So you want to make sure that the emotions match the words. Also, you want to look at the characters. Can you make the characters come to life for us? Who did you encounter?

“For a lot of people, it’s very daunting to do storytelling and for that matter, to do interactive activities. Because, you know, they haven’t done those things before.

“Now, you might think your life’s boring, but when you really dig in, it isn’t. And if you’re speaking about something you are personally passionate about, there’s got to be a reason why you’re personally passionate about it. And if there’s a reason why there must be a story, yes, and that will speak to other people.”

An Offer for the Training Unleashed Community from Nancy Giere

Nancy invites you to download and use a complimentary copy of her eReport Eight Easy Steps to Create Training that Sells!

About Our Guest

After a lifetime in the corporate training world, Nancy knows how businesses operate and she isn’t afraid to shake things up. Her unique perspective combined with 25+ years of experience has empowered her with fresh insight and the industry’s best-kept secrets that she’s ready to share with you. On a lifelong campaign against boring training, she uses the power of storytelling and light-hearted humor to create an engaging, fun, and interactive environment. Masterfully intertwining comedic humor with life lessons, her stories make learning stick! Nancy has worked with the biggest names in corporate America like Johnson Controls, Harley Davidson, and Northwestern Mutual.